Do lawyers know about their clients' crimes

Lawyer Warning: Claims of a Romantic?


The journalist and lawyer Joachim Wagner warns against poorly trained lawyers in his new book. He would like a new professional ethos and a reform of legal training. At BRAK and DAV, he met with reservations. How romantic are Wagner's ideas of a smaller legal market, respected lawyers and a high professional ethic?

The "must lawyers" are the problem. These are the lawyers that the journalist Joachim Wagner warns of in his new book "Caution Lawyer". Lawyers with poor exam grades for whom there is no place in the judiciary, business or administration. Who do not go to a large law firm or medium-sized law firm, but instead become self-employed in the living room law firm or as a member of an office community. And thus enlarge the already overcrowded legal market, depress the quality and induce Wagner to issue his warning, which does not dispense with polemics and pathos or empty phrases.

"We crossed the Rubicon a long time ago," says the introduction. Wagner, who is a lawyer himself, is concerned not only with better advice to individual clients, but also with the rule of law as such. It goes without saying that this leads to discussions. Ekkehart Schäfer, Vice President of the Federal Bar Association (BRAK), says: "I would have liked to see Mr Wagner say in the introduction that the majority of lawyers work well and that our constitutional state has not yet perished." Nevertheless, it is a "meritorious work" with which Wagner points out problems. Ulrich Schellenberg, Vice President of the German Lawyers' Association (DAV) and chairman of the Berlin State Association, has not yet read the book and remains waiting in view of the title: "That sounds a bit sensational."

Law studies - a "reservoir for the mediocre"

For Wagner, the misery on the legal market begins with a misery at the universities, the bad lawyers are largely identical to the bad high school graduates. The average grade of the first-year students is only in the middle compared to other courses, the proportion of high school graduates with an overall grade of "very good" halved from 16 percent in 1996/97 to 8 percent in 2009/2010. The law course will thus become a "reservoir for the mediocre", writes Wagner. And the legal profession has become a "reservoir for bad lawyers". The crowd created a very fierce competition, explains Wagner. And that goes at the expense of quality and professional ethics.

In particular, he identified two groups in which the quality of legal advice suffers. The young professionals and the older lawyers whom he describes as "modernization losers". Both are primarily about those who work as individual attorneys and are active in a broad area of ​​law. "A majority of lawyers, namely 53 percent according to empirical studies, work as individual lawyers and a third of them as generalists," said Wagner. "And in view of the legalization of our complicated world, these generalists are basically overwhelmed with many things."

In his book, he quotes the former DAV president, Hartmut Kilger, as saying that "around a third of lawyers run the risk of receiving poor quality advice". That is "the most important quote in my book," says Wagner. It's a hands-free estimate. DAV Vice Schellenberg does not share: "I would not say that. Not because I know better, but because I just don't know." The less successful lawyers do not necessarily have to be the worse ones, he emphasizes: "It also depends on the personal attitude. How do I deal with further training, do I make a reasonable risk assessment, do I work carefully and take time for a mandate."

Annelie Kaufmann, warning from the lawyer: demands of a romantic? . In: Legal Tribune Online, May 6, 2014, (accessed on: May 19, 2021)

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  • And this "work" was written by a "television journalist"? lol ...

  • Wagner rightly shows the excesses of competition.

    But he is wrong on one point - as if decency and professional ethics were related to the quality of the training, yes directly to the grade!

    Who were the unscrupulous vicarious agents of the Bad Banks during the financial crisis, who runs the huge warning boutiques in HH? Right, these are top lawyers.

    Not to forget, the greatest banksters in America are Harvard graduates. In this respect, Wagner's thesis is for the cat. Still interesting, what I could read about the Hartz IV industry, for example.

    Jonathan Berklei
  • First thought: poor fool. Escaping reality could also be more fun to practice.

    Second thought: respect, so understand the market economy! A lot of sales with Larmoyanz in book form.

    El Hell
  • Ethos and romance are of no use to anyone.
    It would also be completely sufficient if everyone obeyed the law.
    Anyone is prohibited from promoting or inciting or aiding and abetting tax evasion, money laundering or fraud or false testimony.
    An organ of the administration of justice that observes these prohibitions does not become a do-gooder or a moralist or an ethicist.
    For financial institutions located in tax havens, there are seldom poor individual lawyers with four-year exams, but mostly "doctors" from expensive, prestigious international law firms.
    It is the ruthless and unrestrained greed for profit maximization at any price that often turns lawyers into helpers of war criminals or dictators or human rights violators or criminal oligarchs or criminal banks or their customers or helpers of criminal organizations and criminal powers.
    And in the Anglo-Saxon countries the slogan "Greed is good!" preached.
    In the City of London or on Wall Street or in Hong Kong there are certainly many more criminal lawyers than in impoverished cities in East Germany or the Ruhr area.

  • Numerous doctors run a small, modest family doctor practice all by themselves, and still serve their patients well to their patients.
    On the other hand, there are prestigious Nobel practices and Nobel clinics, which are well-known and prominent and renowned, but do not always primarily focus on the well-being of their patients, but for which their own profit interests are often the first priority.
    There is something similar with lawyers.
    Not every law-seeking citizen needs to be best served by the most expensive lawyer.

  • The guild who loves notes, where notes are everything and the reputation of the person in judges is therefore the most important decision-making criterion.

    It only depends on the personal attitude, because depending on which legal area you later work in, you may only need 10% of the knowledge from your studies.

    People who only strive for the grades and thus prove that they will do everything that is wanted from above often also have their disadvantages.

    19. Nazi murderers had it good; also at the Federal Court of Justice. One got less than three hours in prison for each murder. RAF perpetrators were thrashed differently. Five career judges have a qualification in terms of brilliant exams, immaculate personnel files and heavy protection; they are all miserable judges for their sense of justice. An allegedly democratic and constitutional selection of qualifications filters out judges who have mastered the glass bead game of jurisprudence perfectly, but who lack the feeling for the right measure and especially for the principles of law. The historical fact repeats itself that actual qualification does not prevent the perversion of law, but evidently promotes it.

    I've had the experience that before lawyers you can talk to Dr. Title must exercise particular caution. Also a Dr. Title just means that you have written a doctoral thesis on some legal topic that you will usually never deal with again.
    The high standing in the judiciary of such people automatically means that everything they say is correct. Their arrogance also shows that it is offended mimosas if one exercises criticism of their mental nonsense for which one is then to be prosecuted because of the particularly high elitist person, who is therefore particularly offended.

    In almost all proceedings in which a lawyer represented me and where I was incapacitated, the respective lawyer acted incorrectly. If I pointed out a mistake to the lawyer, there was usually an insulted liver sausage before snootiness, which also did not correct the mistake.
    Asserting rights with judges without incapacitation by a lawyer is also impossible for most judges, because you are just NOTHING, whose entries can only be incorrect or which must therefore be assumed hypothetically (LG-Bückeburg, OLG-Celle) that these are faulty and that no rights can be established with them.

    After he first wanted to uncover the alleged Islamic shadow justice in Germany in a Sarrazin-like manner (the Bavarian authorities have since given up looking for it), Freund Wagner now turns to the evil lawyers. In order to set the course right here, too, the title of his new work has to be right. Next he will be in the media and slowly bite his way from north to south. Anyone who has established that grades in the legal profession are just as unimportant as the question of whether a Formula I driver must have a driver's license knows that his theses are already at the root of the problem. But how should the lawyer Wagner, who never worked as a lawyer but had to find a job in a non-legal profession, know that?

  • This book is a bible, a reference work, a consolation and a confirmation for all alienated clients who can count to 3, can read '§§ and the counterproductive and unrepentant activities of the so-called have recognized independent organs of the administration of justice and defend themselves against it!
    Thanks to the professional research of Dr. jur. Joachim Wagner to explain the cause we could become strong together !! Power to all blessed clients !!

    Ben Altmann
  • Ben Altmann @ Like Mr. Wagner, you have the wrong folding rule in your luggage. You live comfortably yourself and you can earn your money as an employee without any special effort. Wagner is just a rip-off who makes money with the book in addition to his pesion from ZDF. So what is a simple box. The book is already selling because Wagner is a prominent figure.

    Ludwig Zimmermann
  • Ludwig Zimmermann @ I don't have "the wrong yardstick in my luggage" but belong to the group of exploited clients in an overpopulated region !!
    Each client becomes the prey of this fee-greedy professional group, also called vampires in the black salar. Proceedings are manipulated counterproductively to create never-ending stories, by suppressing evidence, filing false appeals, missed deadlines, cooperation with the other side as well as hand-in-hand actions and settlement agreements behind the back of their own clients, for the pecuniary advantage of the poor lawyer and for the financial sucking out of the client.
    This happens both with billing according to RVG (fictitious lawsuits over 3 instances), and in particular with a so-called fee contract with disguised and incorrect billing, which means, for example, for a value in dispute of approx. € 1,500 in 4 months at an hourly rate of € 250. - € a fee of € 11,000.00 is produced .. This corresponds to a monthly income of € 2,750.00 with a working time of 11 hours per month, whereby a 10-minute conversation is also credited at the full hourly rate.
    With a total working time of 44 hours = 1 week, this means a monthly income of € 44,000 at full workload !!!!
    Stricter controls and retraining measures by independent judicial authorities are urgently needed in order to stop the demoralization process of the professional group so that the private client is no longer abused as an ABM employer, ie every mandate becomes a "never ending story" and every client becomes a " Long-term food "in this fee-greedy shark tank.
    Ben Altmann

    Ben Altmann
  • What a moronic whine from the lawyer bashers! Litigation is not a pony yard, but a civilized feud or duel. If you want to use mercenaries and renters who also take responsibility for this, you also pay the risk. Completely normal, for 2500 years, also in other industries.

    Nobody is forced to go to a lawyer, anyone in this country can conduct their own lawsuit up to € 5000, unlimited in any case before the specialized courts.

    My counter-recommendation, at least to all colleagues in this discussion library: Heinrich Stader, Mandanten-Schwarzbuch, ISBN-10: 3905707330.

    El Hell

    El Hell
  • P.S. : I do not want any harassment or comments at the level of EL Heil and Ludwig Zimmermann !! Thanks !!

    Ben Altmann
  • Altmann wonders about "pecuniary self-interest" in business life and reveals that the subject is clearly overwhelmed. Latin calendar sayings do not yet make a plea.

    And here is another plea for colleagues:

    "If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door!"

    El Hell
  • El Heil, the name itself is suspicious, extraordinary and indicative, with this comment expresses his solidarity with his professional colleagues, who, in obsessive greed and fear of survival, become blowflies and vampires in the black salar as "mercenaries and rent mouths" in the large competitive swimming pool of 160,000 like-minded people .

    Any professional ethics as well as own and customer marketing fall by the wayside.
    Soon you can also ask 'El Heil: "Are you still a lawyer or are you working as a taxi driver again? Arrogance comes before the case !!

    Ben Altmann
  • Altmann, in the end, isn't it envy of a profession that supposedly sucks a lot of money and / or blood ?! Despite sufficient initial suspicion, I say goodbye to the forum.

    P.S .: What do lawyers and vampires have in common? You have bloodshot eyes, pale skin, spend your entire life in dark shacks and suck the last drop of blood from people. And what's the difference between lawyers and vampires? Vampires sometimes go on vacation.

    With this in mind, raise your cups.

    El Hell
  • El Heil, you forget the blowflies that always appear when there is something to eat, no matter what, and which are extremely annoying!
    Both vampires and "ticks" in the black salar, another comparison, have one thing in common with lawyers:
    These three creatures recklessly feed as parasites at the expense of others !!

    My recommendation: retrain, become a real estate agent, a related group of blowflies, ticks, vampires and lawyers.
    You don't need a 10-year degree for this. All you need to do is buy a trade license for approx. € 130 without proof of training, and as a lawyer you can use your full legal bag of tricks to outsmart others who don't want it any other way, as they are only controlled pecuniary themselves.
    So the customer group of the normal clients of lawyers remained like you
    spared, which would mean enormous progress in protecting clients.

    Courage, El Heil, you can do it !!

    "boot out" the others from your bag of tricks with legal superiority

    Ben Altmann
  • Hello Ben Altmann, if the arguments do not suit you, then they will be perceived as a nuisance. If you can't afford a decent lawyer, do it yourself. Here's someone who's really great:

    You make the same mistake as almost everyone who is generally dissatisfied. It's always the other's fault. Go to the elite lawyers and pay them 500 € an hour if you can and don't complain about it. The rest is just yowling. Because of me, I also left the book by Wagner, where the hour also costs € 500 and would rip you off just as much as any good lawyer if he were one.

    Ludwig Zimmermann
  • Another suggestion to remedy and discipline the abuses in this professional group:
    The introduction by the lawyers' jurisdiction of a catalog of fines, similar to the traffic offender register in Flensburg !!
    After reporting by the alienated client of conflicts of interest such as party betrayal, fee fraud, litigation fraud, etc.pp. If the lawyer is entered on a black list according to a point system, warned with a fine or administrative order, which after a certain number of points could lead to the withdrawal of the "driving license" or the non-business license initially for a period of time, then forever.
    This could reduce the grievances and discipline or improve the professional ethics and morals of the administration of justice.

    Ben Altmann

    Ben Altmann
  • That's right, about the lawyers ...
    Finding a good lawyer is just as difficult as a good tax advisor or doctor, regardless of their specialization.
    Overall, the current level of training and knowledge in Germany is rather poor. Is therefore already sad in a sogn. High technology and training country Germany.

  • Joe from January 15th, 2016 impresses me even more than the notorious old man. He can objectively assess the quality of the offer in the entire republic in 3 different disciplines. In doing so, he refutes his own conclusion: An education system that produces such qualified generalists and comprehensively educated experts as the smart Joe can't be that bad, right!?!

    el bright
  • Good morning Joe and El Hell
    Missed the connection after more than a year and missed the topic!

    It's about the questionable professional group of lawyers in law-flooded areas such as the RAK catchment area of ​​Cologne with 16,000 lawyers, 12,820 of whom are admitted, of which 3,000 are unemployed and 3,000 lawyers with kitchen-living offices!

    Ben Altmann
  • My experience with lawyer Martin Jungraithmayr.

    Attorney Martin Jungraithmayr only collects 1250 euros and blackmailed me from his client with resignation after I put the briefs up front.

    Martin Jungraithmayr resigned from his mandate two weeks before the appointment at the regional court.
    Everything about it:

    Alfred Becker
  • "In a so-called constitutional state, law and law should determine practice, and practice should not bend both law and law !!"
    Thank you for the comment and the opportunity to learn everything about your story, to be able to make comparisons and to find consolation in the fact that there are also other alienated citizens in this country who, by bending to the law, do not become gown-submissive creeps, but themselves put up a fight !!! ... My criticism also applies not only to lawyers, but also to the 1st group of the independent organs of legal perversion, the egomaniacal gown wearers in judges' robes !!
    Thank you very much and "Chapeau", all the best and good luck! Kind regards. B.A.

    Ben Altmann
  • Comment on the last comment from 2016-06-25, Ben Salih:
    "We do not live in a constitutional state, but in a capitalist injustice state that pretends to be a social-democratic constitutional state."

    Thank you, Ben Salih! After such a long time finally a substantiated and
    to receive well-founded commentary on the problem in the s-g rule of law
    Germany recognizes is not only beneficial, but also gives rise to hope that it will be among the so-called independent bodies of justice
    maybe there is still the famous needle in the haystack that despite competition and struggle for survival in a lawyer-overpopulated region like
    RAK catchment area Cologne has not lost sight of the oath and the professional obligations, and responsibly practices his profession as a lawyer ... If that should be the case, then I urgently ask for a report!

    Kind regards. Ben Altmann

    Ben Altmann
  • This message has not yet been sent! Please include it in your comment block, as it is very important !!!! mfg. Ben Altmann

    Ben Altmann
  • has already been sent twice, please publish! Thanks ! mfg B.A.

    Ben Altmann
  • Please excuse my impatience, but I have been looking for a lawyer in the RAK catchment area of ​​Cologne for 12 years who does not submit to the species protection of the Cologne jurisdiction
    (Stadtsparkasse Köln / Bonn with real estate subsidiary Corpus Sireo) is still one of the unprofessional lawyers who put their self-interest in the foreground (fear of survival in the lawyer tsunami), and thus suppressed their oath and the professional ethics obligations as "independent bodies of the administration of justice", alienating your own client and exempting them financially while still working together with the other side.

    My suggestion: Would it be possible for you to set up an RA job exchange for desperately searching clients and honest, sincere lawyers in order to give the demoralized professional group another chance?

    This should then be rewarded with the Federal Cross of Merit or the Nobel Peace Prize, because it could turn an unjust state back into a democratic constitutional state .....
    Kind regards. B.A.

    Ben Altmann
  • In Germany it is possible that completely normal people will fall into the clutches of the judiciary.
    As my case shows, it doesn't take much. On the one hand, a plaintiff like Udo Keil Bexbach and then a lawyer like Andreas Lingenfelser Pforzheim, who through his father Franz Lingenfelser has connections to the highest courts of the Karlsruhe judiciary.
    Behind the scenes of the Karlsruhe and Worms justice system, a legal scandal is taking place. More than half a dozen judges at the Karlsruhe District and Higher Regional Court and the Worms District Court are now involved.
    I fell victim to these perfidious and cowardly as well as evil intrigues and dubious machinations of the judges involved.
    The arbitrariness and perversions of the law at the Worms district court are meanwhile endless. Judges like Judge Keiper and Judge Lattrell are obviously working hand in hand to get me down. They are also not afraid of twisting facts in order to use them to construct incriminating evidence of incapacitation or to construct a care procedure.

    On the judicial scandal
  • I thank Joachim Wagner for publishing the failure of lawyers in his book.

    I am also affected. I feel humiliated and betrayed by the legal profession.

    In an overly long doctor's liability proceeding, I was finally awarded, believe it or not, eight years after the mistreatment in 2016, compensation for pain and suffering along with interest since I was pending (2009).

    In addition, the OLG determined in the appeal proceedings (judgment) that the doctor is obliged to compensate me for the material damage resulting from the medical error found.

    However, my lawyer had neglected to quantify the damage compensation positions I had incurred in the proceedings. He has also not asserted a claim for interest (§ 308 ZPO). Only he “thought” of his own fee !!

    He urged me to make a comparison that I did not accept. Then he asked the opponent to make a flat-rate payment based on my statement of costs, which, however, did not take place.

    To make matters worse, he retained a further fee from the hard-won, very low compensation for pain and suffering - after he had already received the fees for the appeal process.

    He is not interested in a possible cost determination / setting procedure. That can't be the case!

    In any case, I will not give up and will continue to fight for my rights.

    Because: Where injustice becomes right, resistance is a must (Bertold Brecht) !!

    Anne M.
  • Beware of attorney Martin Jungraithmayr Mannheim

    Attorney Martin Jungraithmayr is probably a blatant case! Http: //

  • After this lurid hate book was quoted and revived in another article, a comment was needed here too, despite the past time. It was him.

    Carsten Dams
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